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Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

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Total Votes : 23

Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by WINTERFRESH on Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:58 am

It has come to my attention that some of you are unhappy with leadership, or how leadership was chosen, or even the new rule that was just passed. I come to you today with only an idea that you could reject, or help me build on this idea. Also above is a poll,(please don't vote until you have read the whole post) this will not be the final decision of what happens but will show the admins what we want. I am very aware this poll might get more negative votes then positive votes, but im willing to take that chance. Below is my ideas of what should happen (not final, if we win this poll and the admins let the people decide what should happen to Nightmare)

1. New admins and mods will be elected by the members. Anyone will be allowed to run for either of these positions. Every mod and admin will be allowed to run for admin and mod again.

2. A section for candidates to give speeches and answer any question members may have. Also, meetings will be held so any further question you have for the candidates will be answered live.

3. The new rule about the chatbox being taken away 4/7 will be overturned, until we get new admins and mods to decide what will happen with the matter.

4. We will have temporary mods and admins until the new mods and admins are elected. The temporary mods and admins will have full power of mods and admins.

5. There will be 2 new admins and 3 new mods will be elected. Any more admins and mods will be elected by the new system as well.

6. We will try to find other ways to run a poll, as some of you feel these polls may be cheated, but for now just use the poll above.

7. I have been given permission to make this topic so please don't delete this topic or ask if im allowed to make this topic.

8. This topic is not final, please feel free to leave suggestions below, i will add them to this topic. Also feel free to ''sign'' this topic below. What i mean by that is comment your username and say you agree to this, it will be added to the declaration

Again, feel free to leave suggestions below, or any questions. Thank you for your time.


DECLORATION

WINTERFRESH


Last edited by WINTERFRESH on Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:16 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by Jamie on Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:05 pm

i guess its a good idea
i think all omds/admin should be the same except evan
he never logs in chat

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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by Eduardo on Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:39 pm

I want to make everything crystal clear about this new situation. I'm not a fan of harsh decisions, actually, 95% of those kind of decision is a major fail at the end. I'm TOTALLY AGAINST this new rule, so I want all members to know it. But that doesn't mean I won't follow it: I'll post more than 3 times a week and i'll think of new threads to be made. What I want to say is:

1. If it ends on a big success, I'm not the one to receive credit;
2. If it is a major failure, I'm not the one to be blamed on.

Also, I agree there will be people that will leave eventually. Many could say "I don't want members that won't contribute for the Forum", but that's NOT the way I think. I don't want a Forum stuffed with people. I prefer to have a few selected and nice people, and this, I can say we have. I'm perfectly happy with our members. This is a place to have fun after all, not to be following a thousand rules.
Before anyone says what you might be thinking, I also want a more active Forum. But I want a TRULY active Forum. This will be nothing more than a illusion in my opinion. This rule will not be followed after the CB returns 24/7.
I hope I've made myself understood.
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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by buckthefuffalo on Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:06 pm

WINTERFRESH wrote:

1. New admins and mods will be elected by the members. Anyone will be allowed to run for either of these positions. Every mod and admin will be allowed to run for admin and mod again.

This site isn't a democracy. Even though I'm in full support of getting feedback from members, I personally don't believe the members should have the final say on who is in power and who isn't. The staff have acquired their positions because we feel that they are the best ones for the job. If you have a problem with a specific staff member, just PM one of us (that isn't the staff member in question), and we'll be glad to answer any concerns you may have, and we'll be happy to look into any problems you may have with them. Wiping the slate clean and having elections would only over-complicate a process that isn't hard.

2. A section for candidates to give speeches and answer any question members may have. Also, meetings will be held so any further question you have for the candidates will be answered live.

I guess this would be okay if we actually went through with it, but I've posted my objections to it in the above point.

3. The new rule about the chatbox being taken away 4/7 will be overturned, until we get new admins and mods to decide what will happen with the matter.

The rule about chat being taken away is why this was started, yes? The "last straw", so to speak? If that's the case (and I have reason to believe it is, considering this was made a day after the announcement was made), then I hope you're aware that you're only jeopardizing the forum further.

4. We will have temporary mods and admins until the new mods and admins are elected. The temporary mods and admins will have full power of mods and admins.

So, would this be the same ones in power now, or do you propose we have an election for that too?

5. There will be 2-3 new admins (not final) and 1-2 new mod (not final) will be elected. Any more admins and mods will be elected by the new system as well.

Huh? I get the point you're trying to make. That's not what confuses me. You're making it sound like in one sentence only 2-3 admins will be elected as well as 1-2 mods (not final, as you said), but then in the next sentence you say that more staff than that can be elected too. Please explain.

6. We will try to find other ways to run a poll, as some of you feel these polls may be cheated, but for now just use the poll above.

Who's to say this one won't be cheated too? In my opinion, you should have to post to vote on this poll, stating your opinion in a proper manner. Normally it wouldn't be an issue, but this is a huge reform, and some people don't take it seriously. Really, I know one time someone decided their vote on an equally important issue on a coin flip. I don't think it's too much to ask for a post stating your opinion rather than just picking an option and being done with it.

7. I have been given permission to make this topic so please don't delete this topic or ask if im allowed to make this topic.

Fair enough. I welcome you to share your opinion.

8. This topic is not final, please feel free to leave suggestions below, i will add them to this topic. Also feel free to ''sign'' this topic below. What i mean by that is comment your username and say you agree to this, it will be added to the declaration

Again, feel free to leave suggestions below, or any questions. Thank you for your time.


DECLORATION

WINTERFRESH

Replies in bold.

Blues wrote:I agree there will be people that will leave eventually. Many could say "I don't want members that won't contribute for the Forum", but that's NOT the way I think. I don't want a Forum stuffed with people. I prefer to have a few selected and nice people, and this, I can say we have. I'm perfectly happy with our members. This is a place to have fun after all, not to be following a thousand rules.
Before anyone says what you might be thinking, I also want a more active Forum. But I want a REAL active Forum. This will be nothing more than a illusion in my opinion. This rule will not be followed after the CB returns 24/7.

Yes, people will most likely leave. We considered that when making this decision. However, as I've said, nothing would change if this wasn't put into place. If this ends with the forum in pieces and even deader than it already is, then I'll gladly take any blame and responsibility for defending this rule.

To be honest, I love the members we have now. I've made many friends on this site and met some great people. However, I must voice what I believe is best for the site. And even though we have a great little community of members going on, this site still needs to grow and get bigger.

This is just one extra rule (and a temporary one at that) to give the site a little more life besides the chat. In a way, you're right. If we're telling the members post or no chat, then it wouldn't be "real" activity. But I'm hoping that some members will realize that posting is fun too, and at least give it a fair chance. As a staff, we've tried time and time again to genuinely get forum activity to go up, and it has not worked.

As I've mentioned before, we've given the forum part of the site everything it needs to function. What we're missing is the effort from our members. And to me, it's a little disrespectful. I think about the work we've put into the forums, the things we've tried to boost activity of the forum, but did the members ever, as a whole, participate in it? Did the majority even respond? No. It makes me feel like just having the forum taken down altogether, because currently, it's nothing more than that big thing you scroll past to get to the chat.

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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by WINTERFRESH on Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:30 pm

@buck

3. The new rule about the chatbox being taken away 4/7 will be overturned, until we get new admins and mods to decide what will happen with the matter.

The rule about chat being taken away is why this was started, yes? The "last straw", so to speak? If that's the case (and I have reason to believe it is, considering this was made a day after the announcement was made), then I hope you're aware that you're only jeopardizing the forum further.

Absolutely not, you can ask Saf. It is quite the coincidence that this happened one day after your rule. Your new rule did influence me to think about the site's current leadership and I only had this mere idea to change nightmares leadership. This would have been asked in the comments/chat so I answered it.

4. We will have temporary mods and admins until the new mods and admins are elected. The temporary mods and admins will have full power of mods and admins.

So, would this be the same ones in power now, or do you propose we have an election for that too?

I don't appreciate the mockery, but yes we would use the current ones in power

5. There will be 2-3 new admins (not final) and 1-2 new mod (not final) will be elected. Any more admins and mods will be elected by the new system as well.

Huh? I get the point you're trying to make. That's not what confuses me. You're making it sound like in one sentence only 2-3 admins will be elected as well as 1-2 mods (not final, as you said), but then in the next sentence you say that more staff than that can be elected too. Please explain.

As you have told me many time we are waiting for the site to grow bigger to appoint more staff. When that time comes we will elect more staff.

6. We will try to find other ways to run a poll, as some of you feel these polls may be cheated, but for now just use the poll above.

Who's to say this one won't be cheated too? In my opinion, you should have to post to vote on this poll, stating your opinion in a proper manner. Normally it wouldn't be an issue, but this is a huge reform, and some people don't take it seriously. Really, I know one time someone decided their vote on an equally important issue on a coin flip. I don't think it's too much to ask for a post stating your opinion rather than just picking an option and being done with it.

You worry too much about the polls being cheated. My problem with the comment voting is it never a success.




Last edited by WINTERFRESH on Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:52 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by Safiliwen on Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:43 pm

Polls in general hardly work at this site for the reason Buck gave, too many people vote on it based on a whim.

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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by Evan on Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:05 pm

@Jamie

First week of school. I'm usually on around 8 o'clock my time for like 10 minutes. if you need me, hit me up then.

Winter, I'm just telling you, if the chatbox hadn't been there in the beginning, we wouldn't be having this discussion now. Ergo, by making this poll, we'd essentially be reverting to the site's origination, and starting anew.

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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by Eduardo on Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:07 pm

Jamie, you only don't see Evan online that much because there is an eight hours gap between you two.
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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by L on Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:39 pm

I voted yes because i hate this new rule. you admins dont get what the members mean i think.... you keep saying its not hard to post 3 times BUT THATS NOT THE POINT! its that we only get the chat for the weekend. and we have to wait the whole week for it. wee already have school and we dont need homework on this site. we have to post 3 times in a week to get chat for the weekend? how about we get to chat EVERY day of the week as long as we make 3 posts? if we dont make 3 posts then we get chat taken away the next week.

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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by buckthefuffalo on Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:48 pm

Reshiram wrote:I voted yes because i hate this new rule. you admins dont get what the members mean i think.... you keep saying its not hard to post 3 times BUT THATS NOT THE POINT! its that we only get the chat for the weekend. and we have to wait the whole week for it. wee already have school and we dont need homework on this site. we have to post 3 times in a week to get chat for the weekend? how about we get to chat EVERY day of the week as long as we make 3 posts? if we dont make 3 posts then we get chat taken away the next week.

What, you mean chat isn't most active with the best discussion during the weekend, when everyone is off? You don't have to wait a whole week for it. As mentioned in another thread, you're only missing it four days out of the week.

I'm not really sure what I think about your suggestion though. On one hand, I could see it being useful, but on another, it makes me think that members aren't going to post all week until Sunday in order to make up posts. It's something to think about though.

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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by buckthefuffalo on Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:54 pm

And thanks for making yourself clearer Winter. I was a little confused about some of your ideas, especially three, four, and five. However, these polls are indeed cheated, almost every single time. Plus, posting makes them think about their decision a little bit, which is always good.

If people who voted either way don't start posting why, don't blame me when we don't take the poll results seriously.

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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by WINTERFRESH on Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:58 pm

buckthefuffalo wrote:And thanks for making yourself clearer Winter. I was a little confused about some of your ideas, especially three, four, and five. However, these polls are indeed cheated, almost every single time. Plus, posting makes them think about their decision a little bit, which is always good.

If people who voted either way don't start posting why, don't blame me when we don't take the poll results seriously.

I could say you dont take them seriously when people do post. Why, because people don't do it buck. No one is cheating you could check ip's if you think there is cheating going on
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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by buckthefuffalo on Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:26 am

WINTERFRESH wrote:I could say you dont take them seriously when people do post. Why, because people don't do it buck. No one is cheating you could check ip's if you think there is cheating going on

I would take threads like this more seriously if people actually posted their stance giving a few decent reasons why. A paragraph would be nice. But if people don't even care enough to post their stance on a topic as important as this in their own words, do you really expect me to take it seriously? I mean, come on now.

And we could check IPs if we suspected cheating, but why do that when we could avoid it by having people be required to post their stance? It's a win/win. You get your point across, myself and other admins respond, we take you more seriously, and we don't have to go through the trouble and drama of potentially having to take down this thread due to cheated votes, or chasing after IPs to see if votes are being cheated. It's beneficial to both parties involved.

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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by L on Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:46 am

@ buck

thank you for at least considering my idea buck. of course if the amount of days we get is upped perhaps we could change the amount of posts needed. maybe we could be required to make 5 posts? or one post every day? something simple, so you all could keep up with it and we wouldnt have any trouble with it (which works to your benafit because then we cant make excuses and we get the chat like we normally would so you dont have to hear us complain). i hope the admins take separate options seriously because pretty much every active member is. and so what if people just post on sunday? you all have been talking about how easy it is to come on and make all your posts in like 10 minutes. so if we make the posts on one day the forums still get some posts in them and odds are, someone will post something and be curious of what someone may have said back to them, and they will post back and so on. so there really arent any flaws to my alternative that are as bad as the original plan. nontheless though, im willing to try it, even though i dont think i will like it at all, same as a lot of the members.

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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by Frashu on Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:39 am

No offense to anyone but, there just doesn't seem to be a lot of people viable for Adminship.

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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by L on Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:41 am

well what about me? im really doing everything i can to save this site because i think this rule is causing too mu ch havoc and its too much of a gamble to make.

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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by buckthefuffalo on Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:20 pm

Reshiram wrote:@ buck

thank you for at least considering my idea buck. of course if the amount of days we get is upped perhaps we could change the amount of posts needed. maybe we could be required to make 5 posts? or one post every day? something simple, so you all could keep up with it and we wouldnt have any trouble with it (which works to your benafit because then we cant make excuses and we get the chat like we normally would so you dont have to hear us complain). i hope the admins take separate options seriously because pretty much every active member is. and so what if people just post on sunday? you all have been talking about how easy it is to come on and make all your posts in like 10 minutes. so if we make the posts on one day the forums still get some posts in them and odds are, someone will post something and be curious of what someone may have said back to them, and they will post back and so on. so there really arent any flaws to my alternative that are as bad as the original plan. nontheless though, im willing to try it, even though i dont think i will like it at all, same as a lot of the members.

In my opinion, a post everyday would be even more stressful, and I can see people complaining even more about 5 posts. Three posts for a weekend is a fair deal in my opinion.

And members rushing to post in on Sunday in your idea is a problem. I'd like it to be more spaced out, although I guess we shouldn't make you have to spread it out. However, I do encourage it, and it would also get the chat back to 24/7 faster because we'd consider the forum more "stable".

Oh, and another thing. Paragraphs. Not trying to be rude here, but no one really enjoys reading a wall of text. Try to separate your main ideas with paragraphs. It makes it easier and smoother to read.

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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by MasterDudex5 on Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:43 pm

WINTER told me about this. I have been against the leadership system for a long time now. If it matters I have spied a bit as a guest.

In my opinion starting over would be best. I wouldn't like the chat taken away just for, I'm not sure about all the current members that you have left.

My reasoning is that this site has gone a long time where admins could just make rules... And now it seems the rules have more than doubled since I have been gone. That should be fixed.. It's getting to much like a dictatorship here. :/

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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by buckthefuffalo on Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:49 pm

MasterDudex5 wrote:
In my opinion starting over would be best. I wouldn't like the chat taken away just for, I'm not sure about all the current members that you have left.

My reasoning is that this site has gone a long time where admins could just make rules... And now it seems the rules have more than doubled since I have been gone. That should be fixed.. It's getting to much like a dictatorship here. :/

Sites have rules to keep things in check. That's how sites work. It is the job of admins to make sure the site is making progress, which wasn't the case, so something had to give. This is our best shot we have at changing things for the better here. As Saf said, this is a last resort.

The site isn't getting like a dictatorship. This is meant to be a team effort so that the forum can improve. And actually, I'm not sure how many rules we've added. This is really the only major one. Most of the other stuff is standard forum rules.

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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by Jamie on Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:47 pm

Ok, well Buck and Safi think that we should post why we for what ever we voted for and explain it, so im going to make a short paragraph on what i think, i hope this helps in any way.
Ok, i voted yes, because i wanted the Cb to stay not for any other reason, i think the leader ship is fine, and my earlier post say that Evan should NOT be Admon/Mod was a mistake, as i have found out something that has been happening in his life. No im not saying what it is, that would be rude if you want to find out ask him yourself. I like things the way they are, (with the CB), and since ive been here the Admin/Mod haven't requested me to make any posts, if you gave me a warning while i was here i would have posted sooner and maybe things would be different, I don't think anyone voted YES because they acutually agreed with winter, like me i purely voted yes because i wanted the CB as i can imagine the other did too.

All i want is a chance, starting on monday, don't take away the CB, give us a week to make 3 posts each...all of us, and in that week if the 3 posts aren't made then so be it.

Inforce your rule of only member who posts 3 times a week get the CB from friday morning until sunday night.

I know what you will be saying, wow Jamie can accutually use Punktuation when he tries. wow, yeah KABOW boom thats all ive got to say Smile wink wink

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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by Jamie on Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:49 pm

why the fuck do i have fire badges

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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by Evan on Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:45 pm

Flash wrote:No offense to anyone but, there just doesn't seem to be a lot of people viable for Adminship.

7 Admins isn't any better.

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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

Post by Safiliwen on Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:47 am

Well I thank Leo for his input there, shows he cares even a little about the site as a whole, also Master not being a dick or anything but we've only added 1 rule since you left. So that comment is kind of mute, but onto the other issues you brought up the site has been and will be run the same way it has been for the past few months, even before you left we realy haven't changed alot, and say for instance this did go ahead and we voted new mods and admins in, it would only be the same system with new members, doesn't really make sense. Neither does the part where you say Admins can make up rules, that is kinda what an Admoin does in general they set the rules down and enforce them.

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Re: Let's bake a cake, from SCRATCH (new leadership?)

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