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Chat Revival

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Should the chat stay gone or come back?

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Total Votes : 17

Chat Revival

Post by L on Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:39 am

I do not think the Nightmare chat should be taken away.  What purpose does it serve being taken away?  We still have posts fairly often and sometimes there are conversations in the chat.  The chat isn't used very much at the moment because Nightmare isn't very popular at the moment, not because no one wants to use it.  There are a lot of people I know enjoy the chat, a lot of them aren't regulars though.

Of course the chat isn't very popular at the moment, but that is because the site as a whole isn't very popular right now.

The chat is helpful for introducing new members to the site.  It is easier to explain to them where everything is and let them meet members.  Also, I like the chat and have never really enjoyed any forum site without a chat on it, but that is just my opinion.

I like talking to others on the chat when I find someone on it, it is more real time than on the forums.

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Re: Chat Revival

Post by Qualna on Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:06 am

Well I said you'd get a response if you actually posted, so I guess I'll be the first to leave my input, take it or leave it as you will.

As with the last time the chat removal debate was discussed, having a chatbox made the entire site activity focused on the chatbox itself instead of the forum, when the chatbox is intended to be an asset of the site, not the site itself. The purpose of a forum (which this site is) is to accumulate activity of discussion in organized, easy-to-find posts. The chatbox does not always provide consistent organized discussion, and is mostly spontaneous. When there is a chatbox, people will automatically assume that it is main source of activity and as such when there is no members on the chat, there is no activity, and the forum is basically dead, deterring them from becoming a prolonged member regardless of whether or not how much activity the forum or chatbox has seen prior to that. That is the double-edged sword of having real-time. If members are not obligated to post, then they aren't obligated to make it their job to keep the chat alive. That's the trade-off. The majority of us agreed that the chat would be safe to return when the site reaches a respectable amount of members in which their posting can actually sustain the site's activity to warrant the need for a chatbox. Going back on my first point, the chatbox monopolizes site activity and members will see it as such and act accordingly. The evidence from this comes from the fact that it pretty much already happened. This site used to have a strong group of members posting every day or at least every other day, but eventually everyone just came for the chatbox and didn't care enough to post. Eventually, people didn't even talk on the chatbox and just entered periods to avoid from being timeout as if they were waiting for someone to say something. At the end of the day the chatbox is a privilege and not a right, and can be taken away when abused. The introduction section can do the job of familiarizing new members just fine. If you're bringing a new member from another chat or whatever, then you're already talking to them on that chat anyway and there's no point in bringing them over to yet another chat, when chances are they visit that chat regularly and by this point probably prefer it. It isn't much of an incentive for someone to move from their chat when all they're really getting out of it... is just another chat, only with less people.

To cover the other end, I'm going to answer the question: "Why are posts so important?"
The posting system isn't spontaneous as people can type out an entire complete thought or speech before bringing it online. Drama is more common to be spurred in the chatbox when someone might say something they can't take back or explain themselves on while another person may be offended and react as such instantaneously. Posts can be used to keep information that can be referred to or revised upon at a later time, and can be useful sources of input and information. Posts are organized and categorized in the proper subforums, so such information is easy to access. Most of all, posts show the site's growth over the entire site's lifespan, the chatbox will do no such thing. Looking at a member's post will tell you a lot about their personality, and how much they've changed since they joined. It gives older members a better feeling of accomplishment because they've contributed to the forum so much, and you can look back at various eras and say, "I'm glad I was there for that moment." or "I'm proud of how much of a difference I've made." For a new member to just pop into the chat blindly can be rather offsetting, as if the chatbox happens to actually have a lot of members on it, it can be really intimidating and chaotic for them, as opposed to an introductory post where they can just see the individual hellos one at time, post-by-post. At the end of the day, the forum and chat are two separate entities that are incompatible with each other until the amount of appropriate members are reached to where both can co-exist.

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Re: Chat Revival

Post by Evan on Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:16 am

Usage of Vocabulary stats:
Chat: 9 times in 11 basic sentences.
Popular: 3 times over the course of 3 sentences.

For a legitimate argument, you seem to be under the impression that a forum is a chatbox. I hate to break it to you (I really don't), but forums are messageboards. Also, we do have a PMing system, so if you really want to talk to one person in specific, and more privately as well, I don't see why that wouldn't be an option.

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Re: Chat Revival

Post by Cocks Leader on Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:45 am

Chat is an instant gratification way of talking. Say what you've got to say, leave. Forums are delayed response; you have to check back to see if you got a response. Checking back equals increased activity. Kapish?
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Re: Chat Revival

Post by Awakening on Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:56 am

I would like it if we can use the skype chat less now at least. I think if we spent the time skype messaging and posted in the forum instead, we'd be a lot better in terms of activity. Skype group chats really should be equated to the site chat, in my opinion.

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Re: Chat Revival

Post by Safiliwen on Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:39 am

While I agree somewhat on the Skype chat issue, as of late we don't really use it for Pokémon ALL that often. We'll usually just discuss random topics or other gaming news and then it'l die off for a while rinse repeat with the occasional Pokémon question/battle requests. It's also been useful in setting up our 2 tournaments that we've had and are having.

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Re: Chat Revival

Post by Awakening on Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:29 pm

Mhm, that's true. The thought that making an attempt to post rather than use skype chats being more beneficial to the site is what I'm trying to get at.

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Re: Chat Revival

Post by Safiliwen on Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:31 pm

Yeah we'll be working on that for sure. I mean it wouldn't mean much if the people running the site didn't make an effort to post if we expect the members to do the same.

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Re: Chat Revival

Post by Awakening on Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:49 pm

I do remember that in August we had heavy chat activity running alongside the 890 posts of that month. We'd peak at like 10 people in the chat at times, most of which still visit the site today. I don't think it's necessary to need a certain quantity of new members for a chatroom, I think the current active members are indeed capable of keeping a good balance between forum posts and chat activity.

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Re: Chat Revival

Post by Danye West on Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:59 pm

we go way back
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Re: Chat Revival

Post by buckthefuffalo on Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:11 pm

The site mostly needs to concentrate its effort on the forum and revamping the league while getting in some new people. The chat was already arguably more lifeless than the forum, and, as Qualna implied, to new members it makes the site look dead if chat is dead. I don't have any problem with the chat coming back once we've stood back up on our feet though.

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Re: Chat Revival

Post by L on Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:46 pm

....So much reading.

Qualna, the chat has not been dragging attention away from the forum for a long time.  If a couple members would come online on the chat when there is a new member to introduce their selves, it would serve a much better purpose than the introduction section.  It is real time, so the member does not have to wait for responses(and possibly get bored of waiting and never come back).  They can also get into actual conversations with people more easily to get to know them and decide if they really like the site's members.

Why take the chat away because it isn't popular?  The site in general isn't very popular right now, so we should just take the site down, right?  No, and I get that it is because people don't need to be on all the time to keep the forums active, but having a chat here doesn't really hurt anything as long as people come on the chat to welcome new members.

The chat serves a purpose for welcoming new members even if they come from another chat.  They can get to know the members of the site more easily.



Evan, I am aware of what a forum is and what a chatbox is, and I am not trying to say they are the same thing.  Though I do not see why they cannot co-exist just because one is not very popular.  It seems unreasonable that if the chat is too popular it gets removed and if it is not popular enough it gets removed.  It is an optional part of the site that won't harm the site but can benefit the site as long as it's used properly, and even with a small amount of active regular users it can be used properly.



Buck, we don't have to remove the chat to focus on other things.  In fact the chat helps us focus on other things because we can talk about them in real time on the actual site instead of on a Skype chat room that is not helping the site's popularity.

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Re: Chat Revival

Post by Cocks Leader on Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:23 pm

Okay, Resh. Some analogies and translations for your statements.

"Why take the chat away because it isn't popular?  The site in general isn't very popular right now, so we should just take the site down, right?  No...."

[Doctor to patient] You're dying, and your necrotic arm is a big part of it. But since you're already dying, might as well leave your arm there since we can just ignore it as a major problem and pretend like it actually helps you.


"Buck, we don't have to remove the chat to focus on other things.  In fact the chat helps us focus on other things because we can talk about them in real time on the actual site instead of on a Skype chat room that is not helping the site's popularity."

Let's ignore the purpose of a forum and not stimulate member activity by utilising our post-by-post threads. Instead, lets use something that stimulates zero activity long-term (how do absent people see our chats when they aren't presented to the public like in the forum?) and hope to God that something interesting comes out at the spur of the moment.

I can post more depending on your response.
Also, poll*.
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Re: Chat Revival

Post by Qualna on Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:25 am

L wrote:....So much reading.

Apparently you still don't quite understand what I said, so I'll break it down for you.

L wrote:Qualna, the chat has not been dragging attention away from the forum for a long time.  If a couple members would come online on the chat when there is a new member to introduce their selves, it would serve a much better purpose than the introduction section.  It is real time, so the member does not have to wait for responses(and possibly get bored of waiting and never come back).  They can also get into actual conversations with people more easily to get to know them and decide if they really like the site's members.

In the time it takes "a couple of members" to get on the chat, members could easily just reply to an introduction post. If you're thinking, "what if nobody's online in time to respond to the topic and a member just logs off?" Well the same thing can be said about the chat. The chat is indeed real time, so they can lose interest just as quickly. An intro post gives them an open field to say whatever they want about themselves, and if they really put work into it, of course they're gonna be more inclined to check back on it. An intro topic gives us, the members, the ability to learn about a newcomer in one sitting, without having to get into the social situation of introducing to each other on the chat on the spot, without knowing much about each other. I don't see how a chatbox makes conversations "easier," in fact, it's kind of awkward having two strangers talk to each other without a prior first impression.

L wrote:Why take the chat away because it isn't popular?  The site in general isn't very popular right now, so we should just take the site down, right?  No, and I get that it is because people don't need to be on all the time to keep the forums active, but having a chat here doesn't really hurt anything as long as people come on the chat to welcome new members.

First of all the "popularity" of the chatbox isn't necessarily the issue. It's the fact that it's not a necessity and doesn't promote site activity and growth and only "holds" it for as long as there's a conversation (if any) is on the chatbox. Having a chat doesn't really hurt anything as long as people come on the chat to welcome new members? Okay, what happens if there's no members on to greet them? At least with an intro post, a member can log on later to respond to it. With a chatbox, you'd have to catch that member on at that moment.

L wrote:The chat serves a purpose for welcoming new members even if they come from another chat.  They can get to know the members of the site more easily.

You kind of just ignored the part where I asked why someone would leave a chat if all they were getting was just another chat, only more inconsistent. New members can easily know more about other members by posting in the individual member's intro topic. Nobody said that intro posts were for that person only.

L wrote:Evan, I am aware of what a forum is and what a chatbox is, and I am not trying to say they are the same thing.  Though I do not see why they cannot co-exist just because one is not very popular.  It seems unreasonable that if the chat is too popular it gets removed and if it is not popular enough it gets removed.  It is an optional part of the site that won't harm the site but can benefit the site as long as it's used properly, and even with a small amount of active regular users it can be used properly.

We already agreed the chat can come back when we have enough members generating enough activity to where the site can sustain itself, so I don't see why you keep using the whole "popularity" argument. From experience, the chatbox CAN actually harm the site by being the focal point of attention, and it can only benefit the site if it actually contributed to the growth of it, or at least gives a record of how the site has grown over an extended amount of time. It's not a question of whether it's used properly, because there will always be people who abuse it by only using the site for the chatbox and never posting, it's the question of how is it going to leave a permanent effect on the site overall.

L wrote:Buck, we don't have to remove the chat to focus on other things.  In fact the chat helps us focus on other things because we can talk about them in real time on the actual site instead of on a Skype chat room that is not helping the site's popularity.

Again with the whole "real-time" thing. Like I said in my last post, having "real-time" is a double-edged sword. As convenient as being able to instantly relay messages to a chat may seem, the period in which nobody is on it leaves a bad image for a site. The Skype Chat isn't technically part of the site, Nobody is going to log onto the forum and see the Skype Chat. So that's irrelevant. Besides, the Skype Chat was made for people who ACTUALLY bought and played Pokemon X and Y, you know what the site is about in the first place? What business would anyone have on this site otherwise? I mean, do you Resh, have Pokemon X and Y and can fully discuss it with potential members that do? If not, then what are you actually contributing to the site? It seems like you just disregarded my entire section on why posts are important and how much more they impact the forum, but okay. Cherry-picking statements that you only wanted to respond to, and pretty much saying the same thing you did before isn't really helping your argument. So until you come up with another argument that proves why the chatbox should come back (at this very point in time) that is actually feasible, I'm going to have to say I am still unconvinced.

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Re: Chat Revival

Post by Cocks Leader on Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:36 am

This could use a lock.
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Re: Chat Revival

Post by L on Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:52 pm

My final words will be this.  The chat was not harming the site in any way at the time it was removed, and had not harmed the site for a long time.  There are people who like chatting on the chat.  I see no reason to remove the chat just because it is not being used much.  Why?  It's not like it wasn't being used at all, and removing it does not help the site grow.

Also, seeing an empty chat and a forum full of posts, for me at least, would make me think "Oh, no one's on the chat right now", not "This site is dead cya", and seeing a forum with few posts and no chat would leave a MUCH worse first impression on me.  That is what this site is right now.  We don't get all that many posts, a couple a day on a busy day, so removing the chat doesn't take away the bad first impression.

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Re: Chat Revival

Post by Safiliwen on Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:58 pm

L wrote:
Also, seeing an empty chat and a forum full of posts, for me at least, would make me think "Oh, no one's on the chat right now", not "This site is dead cya"

What the i am the lolicon. Do you know how like retarded that statement is? Like do you honestly realize what you just said, the lack of thought into this post pretty much sums up why you don't have a solid argument to even consider bringing chat back.

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Re: Chat Revival

Post by Awakening on Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:40 pm

Well, considering that there are members that show up on the 48 hour list and there are posts and threads going up, I wouldn't think this site's dead from a new member's perspective.

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Re: Chat Revival

Post by Cocks Leader on Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:35 pm

Awakening wrote:Well, considering that there are members that show up on the 48 hour list and there are posts and threads going up, I wouldn't think this site's dead from a new member's perspective.

Couldn't agree more. I would have to say that the activity is experiencing another increase, seeing as there's definitely been a surge in posts lately. Coughcough.
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Re: Chat Revival

Post by L on Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:31 pm

Saf, you're just insulting me because you have nothing to disprove my statement.  Prove me wrong if you want, instead of insulting me, because that isn't helping anything but your ego.

Korasi, that's been happening since before the chat was removed, I know you're trying to hint it's because of the chat's removal but it's really not.

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Re: Chat Revival

Post by Cocks Leader on Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:10 pm

Let's try to keep this constructive and avoid this impending flamefest shall we?
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Re: Chat Revival

Post by Safiliwen on Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:13 pm

L wrote:Saf, you're just insulting me because you have nothing to disprove my statement.  Prove me wrong if you want, instead of insulting me, because that isn't helping anything but your ego.

Korasi, that's been happening since before the chat was removed, I know you're trying to hint it's because of the chat's removal but it's really not.

wat no it hasn't it's literally only started since chat was removed we'd get like...1 post every other day/2 days at most now we're easily getting 3-4 posts a day AFTER chat was removed. Come on think it through a little.

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Re: Chat Revival

Post by Cocks Leader on Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:22 pm

Admins would know, they have an automated record of the posting over a given period. I myself have seen a great increase in the number of posts that have been made, not only on topics where it gets a little heated, but in constructive topics such as "Custom Sets" and "The Scribe's Corner".
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Re: Chat Revival

Post by Evan on Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:41 pm

L wrote:Saf, you're just insulting me because you have nothing to disprove my statement.  Prove me wrong if you want, instead of insulting me, because that isn't helping anything but your ego.

Korasi, that's been happening since before the chat was removed, I know you're trying to hint it's because of the chat's removal but it's really not.
i thought you already said your last statement

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Re: Chat Revival

Post by Awakening on Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:57 am

Casually dancing around any feces-slinging to give in a thought of a compromise.

How about opening up the chatroom on weekends? It gives the rest of the week priority in posting, and weekends can be used to unload a bit in the chat, without taking away the ability of posting, obviously. It can be a reward after having members posting in the forum X number of times over the week, or something like that. It would make the chat feel a bit better used than having it empty during the week when many can be busy with school or work. It'd be fun to plan events like trivia night, or interactive stories to let members have fun. A different kind of fun that one experiences in the forum.

This post is compiled with almost none of my input. A time traveler will know where these thoughts came from.


Last edited by Awakening on Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:31 am; edited 1 time in total

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