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Kyurem-B is OU

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Kyurem-B is OU

Post by Frashu on Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:49 pm



HP:125
Atk:170
Def:100
Sp.Atk:120
SpD:90
Sp:95

DRG/ICE

Thoughts?

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Re: Kyurem-B is OU

Post by Qualna on Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:02 pm


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Re: Kyurem-B is OU

Post by buckthefuffalo on Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:14 pm

He's weak to Dragon, Ice, and Rock, but that's not really enough when his other stats are all huge. You may be able to outspeed with something, but his defensive stats are pretty high up there so you most likely won't kill him.

Is this Smogon's placement for him, or PO's? If it's Smogon, what does PO think about it? I'd imagine one or the other wants him to stay in ubers.

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Re: Kyurem-B is OU

Post by Frashu on Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:18 pm

buckthefuffalo wrote:He's weak to Dragon, Ice, and Rock, but that's not really enough when his other stats are all huge. You may be able to outspeed with something, but his defensive stats are pretty high up there so you most likely won't kill him.

Is this Smogon's placement for him, or PO's? If it's Smogon, what does PO think about it? I'd imagine one or the other wants him to stay in ubers.


You could use the same argument for Ho-Oh, in which he has a 4x weakness to Rock, so far I haven't seen any use of him that could be seen as OP though.


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Re: Kyurem-B is OU

Post by buckthefuffalo on Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:06 am

Flash wrote:
buckthefuffalo wrote:He's weak to Dragon, Ice, and Rock, but that's not really enough when his other stats are all huge. You may be able to outspeed with something, but his defensive stats are pretty high up there so you most likely won't kill him.

Is this Smogon's placement for him, or PO's? If it's Smogon, what does PO think about it? I'd imagine one or the other wants him to stay in ubers.


You could use the same argument for Ho-Oh, in which he has a 4x weakness to Rock, so far I haven't seen any use of him that could be seen as OP though.


B-Kyurem has 19 more base HP, 40 more base Attack, 10 more base Defense, 10 more base Special Attack, and 5 more base Speed than Ho-Oh. Ho-Oh does have a lot more Special Defense, but when you take 50% from SR alone, it makes it somewhat less of problem (unless you can get the roost up before they can KO). So Ho-Oh in my opinion isn't all that comparable.

We've had huge beatsticks in the past with gigantic attack stats but low speed and defenses, and that usually makes them relatively unused. B-Kyurem, however, has the raw stats to back everything up. Luckily he doesn't have STAB Fusion Bolt, but it's still an option for coverage with Ice Beam I suppose. Power Herb Freeze Shock could be fun, and will probably kill just about anything. Outrage is another nice option. He has access to some nice special TMs, so a mix set is possible.

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Re: Kyurem-B is OU

Post by Cocks Leader on Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:03 am

Let me get this absolutely straight. We have a 170 base Attacker in OU, with 95 base Speed. He has access to STAB Outrage, the most powerful RELIABLE move in the game. He also has a x2 Rock weakness (easily remedied), has the potential to outspeed half of the tier with a Scarf, can tear holes in anything with a base defense below 100, and has near-perfect neutral coverage with access to pseudo Bolt-Beam moves. Now that we've gotten this straight, explain to me why the FUCK this monster was let into the OU tier. Somebody has been drinking. Because my Banded Kyurem-B just did 44% to a Ferrothorn with Outrage. Explain this to me. Please. I beg you.
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Re: Kyurem-B is OU

Post by buckthefuffalo on Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:10 pm

Korasi wrote:Let me get this absolutely straight. We have a 170 base Attacker in OU, with 95 base Speed. He has access to STAB Outrage, the most powerful RELIABLE move in the game. He also has a x2 Rock weakness (easily remedied), has the potential to outspeed half of the tier with a Scarf, can tear holes in anything with a base defense below 100, and has near-perfect neutral coverage with access to pseudo Bolt-Beam moves. Now that we've gotten this straight, explain to me why the FUCK this monster was let into the OU tier. Somebody has been drinking. Because my Banded Kyurem-B just did 44% to a Ferrothorn with Outrage. Explain this to me. Please. I beg you.

Someone needs to calc how much a Scizor's Bullet Punch will do to it. I forgot that he is in fact weak to Steel due to his part ice typing. He might die if he's already got SR damage.

Fighting weakness is also kinda important with things like Terrakion running around, which outspeeds it.

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Re: Kyurem-B is OU

Post by L on Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:21 pm

The reason he's OU is because his relative Kyurem-W owns his fucking ass. Reshiram all the way!

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Re: Kyurem-B is OU

Post by Safiliwen on Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:07 pm

Speed Boost baton pass team done.

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Re: Kyurem-B is OU

Post by Frashu on Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:25 pm

I feel this Kyurem might have to same problems as the last one.

Ain't ubers due to typing and speed.

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Re: Kyurem-B is OU

Post by Cocks Leader on Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:52 pm

It has 125 Base HP and 100 Base Defense, Buck. Based on intuition and almost four years of competitive battling, a Banded Scizor's Bullet Punch would do approximately 78% to a Scarfed variant.
And Safi, Baton Pass teams get shit on by like everything. Because my Anti-Meta teams are bauss. But besides that, Roar them early for GG. They'll have to switch to Espeon, to which you just use like Draco Meteor and smash whatever decides to come in to take it.
And Flash, I get that his typing is not good. He resists none of the priority moves in the game. Unfortunately, since some people will run him bulky, there aren't going to be a whole lot of shits given.
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Re: Kyurem-B is OU

Post by Frashu on Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:58 pm

Korasi wrote:It has 125 Base HP and 100 Base Defense, Buck. Based on intuition and almost four years of competitive battling, a Banded Scizor's Bullet Punch would do approximately 78% to a Scarfed variant.
And Safi, Baton Pass teams get shit on by like everything. Because my Anti-Meta teams are bauss. But besides that, Roar them early for GG. They'll have to switch to Espeon, to which you just use like Draco Meteor and smash whatever decides to come in to take it.
And Flash, I get that his typing is not good. He resists none of the priority moves in the game. Unfortunately, since some people will run him bulky, there aren't going to be a whole lot of shits given.

Power Creep. I'm pretty sure he can't really switch into anything in the meta without being 2hkoed even with his defenses. In this Gen, typing is dominant over defenses.

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Re: Kyurem-B is OU

Post by Cocks Leader on Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:02 pm

What the hell is Power Creep? Never heard of that in my life. I forgot Shadow Sneak, but meh.
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Re: Kyurem-B is OU

Post by Evan on Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:27 pm

With no HP investment at all, Kyurem-B is KO'd 100% of the time after SR by CB Adamant Scizor's Bullet Punch.

With 252 HP EVs, here is the calc.
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 252 HP/0 Def Kyurem-B: 71.37% - 84.58% (2 hits to KO)

And 252 HP/252 Defense:
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 252 HP/252 Def Kyurem-B: 56.17% - 66.74% (2 hits to KO)

And with +Def nature:
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 252 HP/252 Def Kyurem-B (+Def) : 51.54% - 60.79% (2-3 hits to KO)

So after SR, you have a pretty high chance at just the HP, but a guarantee'd 1HKO, with just the Max HP. After that, you have to hit twice, BUT this means that he really cannot switch into Scizor safely. Also, just going to say this right now.

Magnezone walls all STABS as well as psuedo Bolt-Beam.

Fusion Bolt on Sub 3-Attack Magnezone:
252 Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B (+Atk) Fusion Bolt vs 36 HP/0 Def Magnezone: 33.45% - 39.66% (3-4 hits to KO)

Outrage:
252 Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B (+Atk) Outrage vs 36 HP/0 Def Magnezone: 60% - 71.03% (2 hits to KO)

I haven't really seen any physical Ice moves on the dude, so here's Ice Beam on a mixed set:
252 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 36 HP/0 SpDef Magnezone: 36.21% - 42.41% (3-4 hits to KO)

As you can see, the only real threat that can hit Magnezone with his core 3 types is Outrage, which he cannot switch in and do, for fear of the Flash Cannon, which is mildly common nowadays.

Defensive Calcs on CB Scizor:
252 Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B (+Atk) Outrage vs 248 HP/0 Def Scizor: 57.43% - 67.64% (2 hits to KO)
252 Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B (+Atk) Fusion Bolt vs 248 HP/0 Def Scizor: 64.14% - 75.51% (2 hits to KO)
252 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 248 HP/0 SpDef Scizor: 33.53% - 39.65% (3 hits to KO)

Basically, as long as Scizor doesn't come in on the Electric or Dragon type moves, he 2HKO's and wins the trade. If he's already in, he wins.

tl;dr:

magnezone and scizor usage spike yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay



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Re: Kyurem-B is OU

Post by Frashu on Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:31 pm

Evan wrote:With no HP investment at all, Kyurem-B is KO'd 100% of the time after SR by CB Adamant Scizor's Bullet Punch.

With 252 HP EVs, here is the calc.
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 252 HP/0 Def Kyurem-B: 71.37% - 84.58% (2 hits to KO)

And 252 HP/252 Defense:
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 252 HP/252 Def Kyurem-B: 56.17% - 66.74% (2 hits to KO)

And with +Def nature:
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 252 HP/252 Def Kyurem-B (+Def) : 51.54% - 60.79% (2-3 hits to KO)

So after SR, you have a pretty high chance at just the HP, but a guarantee'd 1HKO, with just the Max HP. After that, you have to hit twice, BUT this means that he really cannot switch into Scizor safely. Also, just going to say this right now.

Magnezone walls all STABS as well as psuedo Bolt-Beam.

Fusion Bolt on Sub 3-Attack Magnezone:
252 Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B (+Atk) Fusion Bolt vs 36 HP/0 Def Magnezone: 33.45% - 39.66% (3-4 hits to KO)

Outrage:
252 Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B (+Atk) Outrage vs 36 HP/0 Def Magnezone: 60% - 71.03% (2 hits to KO)

I haven't really seen any physical Ice moves on the dude, so here's Ice Beam on a mixed set:
252 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 36 HP/0 SpDef Magnezone: 36.21% - 42.41% (3-4 hits to KO)

As you can see, the only real threat that can hit Magnezone with his core 3 types is Outrage, which he cannot switch in and do, for fear of the Flash Cannon, which is mildly common nowadays.

Defensive Calcs on CB Scizor:
252 Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B (+Atk) Outrage vs 248 HP/0 Def Scizor: 57.43% - 67.64% (2 hits to KO)
252 Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B (+Atk) Fusion Bolt vs 248 HP/0 Def Scizor: 64.14% - 75.51% (2 hits to KO)
252 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs 248 HP/0 SpDef Scizor: 33.53% - 39.65% (3 hits to KO)

Basically, as long as Scizor doesn't come in on the Electric or Dragon type moves, he 2HKO's and wins the trade. If he's already in, he wins.

tl;dr:

magnezone and scizor usage spike yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay



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Re: Kyurem-B is OU

Post by Evan on Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:31 pm

Korasi wrote:What the hell is Power Creep? Never heard of that in my life. I forgot Shadow Sneak, but meh.

Power Creep is the upwards scaling of power in Pokemon. Like how in 4th Gen, Mew was Uber, but now it's in UU, because things in UU, and by connection OU, can handle it. Also similar to how Garchomp got banned in 4th Gen, but is coming back down to OU now (kinda). Only difference is, Kyurem-B essentially does the same thing except harder, arguably better coverage, but a tad slower.

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Re: Kyurem-B is OU

Post by Cocks Leader on Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:06 pm

Ahhhhhh. I see. I'd never heard that term before. But I get that it is slower. That's why you are supposed to get rid of the fragile things that counter it first. I could see this being INCREDIBLY douchey on a team with Gengar and Ferrothorn. They kinda cover each others' weaknesses. And they make a nice core. Add in a Multiscale Dragonite for ulility, a spinner, and top it off with a gay wall like Chansey and you're good to go.
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Re: Kyurem-B is OU

Post by Zai on Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:31 pm

Ninjask + Kyurem-B with no taunt = insta ragequit

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Re: Kyurem-B is OU

Post by Cocks Leader on Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:40 pm

If you can get the Sub up, that's a pretty guaranteed win if they have no priority.
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Re: Kyurem-B is OU

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