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Grey Cataclysm- An OU RMT

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Grey Cataclysm- An OU RMT

Post by Aaron on Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:42 am

So to start, I really wanted to make a team that is centralized around defeating most Standard threats. By that logic, I decided to go with Mienshao.


Mienshao (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 160 Atk / 96 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Fake Out
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Hi Jump Kick
- U-turn
Mienshao is an incredibly strong Pokemon. Not only does it have a relatively strong priority move, it also has an almost unbelievably strong STAB in the form of Hi Jump Kick. Now, while HJK comes with its own risk, it is still a very powerful move. Fake Out can break Sashes and are great for racking up free/residual damage. Hidden Power Ice is for Dragons, Landorus, and Gliscor. U-Turn is for... well... "When in doubt, U-Turn out".



Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Giga Drain
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Celebi is really nice. It can take on most of the Offensive threats in the metagame and come out on top. I added Stealth Rock to compliment our formidable Offensive momentum. Giga Drain is a reliable STAB that can be used to heal Celebi and leave a nice dent in stuff that doesn't resist it. Thunder Wave is there so that sweepers are pressured into staying and being crippled or switching and something else being crippled. Hidden Power Ice is for Landorus, Gliscor, and Dragons. There's no Recover because I believe that Recover and Giga Drain + Leftovers is kind of redundant.




Dragonite (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Fire Punch
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Dragonite is here to deliver pain. Fire Punch takes care of all of those nice x4 weakness Pokemon, such as Scizor and Ferrothorn. Outrage hits even Pokemon that do resist it. Those that are neutral, well... you're pretty much out of luck. Outrage can 2HKO Gliscor. Everything else is sashimi. Dragon Dance is just there to wreck stuff. After one DD, you can outspeed all of the un-Scarfed metagame. After 2, you can outspeed relatively anything. Earthquake hits everything that isn't already hit, like Heatran and Magnezone.


Magnezone @ Leftovers
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SAtk / 220 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave

I don't even have to explain this. You switch, you trap, you win. With Skarmory and Scizor, it's as easy as that. With Ferrothorn, you Substitute to avoid Leech Seed or Thunder Wave. You then smack it with your own Thunder Wave. Proceed to wreck with Hidden Power Fire. Then, Thunder Wave the next Pokemon safely from behind your Substitute. If you can get a Latios or Terrakion, you're pretty much set. You can switch Thunder Wave for Flash Cannon, allowing you easier kills on Tyranitar and Gliscor. I wouldn't, but it's a personal choice.



Gastrodon-East (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Surf
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Gastrodon is here for one reason and one alone: ABSORB DA WATUR. Rotom-W is completely walled by this. So are most Starmies. Surf is a powerful STAB. Earth Power is for Magnezone. Ice Beam is for Dragons. Recover is for obvious reasons. The EVs allow for maximum Sp. Attack potential without sacrificing much bulk. Also, if an Alakazam comes in, it probably has Energy Ball. Do Gastro a favor. SWITCH OUT.


Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake
- Protect

This is another Pokemon that I shouldn't have to explain, but I will. U-Turn is to keep the momentum and hit Reuniclus so I can switch to a counter. Ice Fang is for opposing Gliscors, Earthquake-Locked Landorus, and Dragons. Earthquake is for Heatran and Magnezone. Protect is for either getting your Orb to activate or for a turn of health regeneration. This walls most everything.


Importable:
Mienshao (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 160 Atk / 96 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Fake Out
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Hi Jump Kick
- U-turn

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Giga Drain
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Dragonite (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Fire Punch
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Magnezone @ Leftovers
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SAtk / 220 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave

Gastrodon-East (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Surf
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake
- Protect

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Re: Grey Cataclysm- An OU RMT

Post by Frashu on Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:00 am

I'll start off my criticism by stating a few words:

Do not make an anti-meta team. They do not work. You cannot counter the entire meta with 6 Pokemon. Making Pokemon who beat other Pokemon you meet is not as effective as making Pokemon that make it hard for them to counter. Trust me, I made more than 30 anti-meta teams and ended up figuring out that none of them work or give me consistent win rates. Why? Because it's impossible to do so.

Even thought you DO resist every type in the game effectively, you have a few problems with common Wall Breakers and Set-up sweepers.


I will update this later since I'm tireeeee.

Lucario : Although you have Pokemon that can kill it, it outspeeds you're entire team except Mienshao who is frail and dies to LO Extremespeed. Effectively a Close Combat, Ice Punch, Extremespeed, SD set will cause some havoc to your team.

Lati@s: They outspeed your team and can just Draco Meteor the moment their sent out, killing one person every time if specs. Magnezone would normally be the solution to this, but with no recovery he will eventually die.


I'll be testing this team on PS and update again laterr.

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Re: Grey Cataclysm- An OU RMT

Post by Aaron on Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:13 pm

Flash wrote:I'll start off my criticism by stating a few words:

Do not make an anti-meta team. They do not work. You cannot counter the entire meta with 6 Pokemon. Making Pokemon who beat other Pokemon you meet is not as effective as making Pokemon that make it hard for them to counter. Trust me, I made more than 30 anti-meta teams and ended up figuring out that none of them work or give me consistent win rates. Why? Because it's impossible to do so.

Even thought you DO resist every type in the game effectively, you have a few problems with common Wall Breakers and Set-up sweepers.


I will update this later since I'm tireeeee.

Lucario : Although you have Pokemon that can kill it, it outspeeds you're entire team except Mienshao who is frail and dies to LO Extremespeed. Effectively a Close Combat, Ice Punch, Extremespeed, SD set will cause some havoc to your team.

Lati@s: They outspeed your team and can just Draco Meteor the moment their sent out, killing one person every time if specs. Magnezone would normally be the solution to this, but with no recovery he will eventually die.


I'll be testing this team on PS and update again laterr.

I was 6-1 on PO yesterday, Wi-Fi OU BW2. It solves pretty much everything except for some variants of Sun teams.

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Re: Grey Cataclysm- An OU RMT

Post by Lynjabear on Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:25 pm

Korasi wrote:
I was 6-1 on PO yesterday, Wi-Fi OU BW2. It solves pretty much everything except for some variants of Sun teams.

6-1 means very little. Starting out, it's easy to win 20 or 30 matches in a row only to go on a mass losing streak once you start reaching the high 1300's where the more experienced players dwell.

As for the team, it doesn't look too bad. However, the main issue I see is lack of support, as this is a more stall/defensively oriented team. You don't have a spinner, and it's absolutely imperative to carry one with dragonite, or at least have some sort of prevention (fast taunt, magic bounce) to prevent multi-scale from breaking.

I agree with Flash in some cases. Because of Gastrodoon's lack of Special Defense investment, Specs Draco Meteor will hurt a lot. Magnezone does resist it, but the Latios user will just withdraw and then come back, or worse, predict the switch in, and 2hko you with HP fire.

Lucario I agree with wholeheartedly. Once it sets up, you don't even have a pokemon that can revenge-kill it, as Gliscor falls to a well-timed ice punch. However, Lucario's ability to setup is a little dubious considering most of your team members can 0hko the steel jackal. Should he set up, though, your team is in for a world of pain.

However, my observations can't be too accurate until I've tried it out. I will go on PO and test it ASAP.
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Re: Grey Cataclysm- An OU RMT

Post by Aaron on Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:08 pm

Lynjabear wrote:
Korasi wrote:
I was 6-1 on PO yesterday, Wi-Fi OU BW2. It solves pretty much everything except for some variants of Sun teams.

6-1 means very little. Starting out, it's easy to win 20 or 30 matches in a row only to go on a mass losing streak once you start reaching the high 1300's where the more experienced players dwell.

As for the team, it doesn't look too bad. However, the main issue I see is lack of support, as this is a more stall/defensively oriented team. You don't have a spinner, and it's absolutely imperative to carry one with dragonite, or at least have some sort of prevention (fast taunt, magic bounce) to prevent multi-scale from breaking.

I agree with Flash in some cases. Because of Gastrodoon's lack of Special Defense investment, Specs Draco Meteor will hurt a lot. Magnezone does resist it, but the Latios user will just withdraw and then come back, or worse, predict the switch in, and 2hko you with HP fire.

Lucario I agree with wholeheartedly. Once it sets up, you don't even have a pokemon that can revenge-kill it, as Gliscor falls to a well-timed ice punch. However, Lucario's ability to setup is a little dubious considering most of your team members can 0hko the steel jackal. Should he set up, though, your team is in for a world of pain.

However, my observations can't be too accurate until I've tried it out. I will go on PO and test it ASAP.

I am finding a little bit of trouble with regards to Gastrodon. He is pretty irreplaceable due to his ability to shut down VoltTurn chains and the fact that he takes care of Rain teams well, acting as a Ferrothorn bait. So I can Zone them in. But yeah. He does have some problem with Latios. Thankfully, Latios hasn't been particularly prevalent in my recent games. As for Lucario, unless he has Ice Punch, I can take him down with Mienshao. That being said, he is also revenge-killed by Mienshao, as Mienshao can take a Life Orb Extremespeed with about 20-30% health left to spare. In addition, it is true that I've had some trouble with Hazards. I tried a Donphan for a while, but he just slowed my team way the hell down. U-Turn on Gliscor was something that I found effective in creating a pseudo-VT sort of momentum.

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Re: Grey Cataclysm- An OU RMT

Post by Lynjabear on Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:13 pm

I actually tried the team out on PO, and I did find that Gastrodoon was dead weight. Although she walled Rotom, she couldn't do anything against any pokemon other than rotom, and simply wasn't that useful. I switched her out for Chansey (sorry if you hate it) and Chansey was fantastic, reviving Dnite's multiscale partway through matches and walling all special threats such as latios. Magnezone was fine, but I tried out Volt Switch in the last slot before I switched out chansey, which worked well until I brought chansey in, when I added the standard Flash Cannon in to surprise Landorus-T switch ins. I spec'd it for awhile, and that seemed to work well, but I'm not sure if you want to specs are your style.

Celebi also wasn't doing to hot, not even able to prevent Dnite from setting up with a 4x HP ice. I rearranged some EVs to become more offensive, and took out SR for U-turn, and that worked pretty well. I then put SR on chansey to keep SR on the team. Although Celebi was working with the offensive EV spread, I ultimately swapped her out for the standard LO starmie, which also had rapid spin support and was able to revenge-kill Dnite and stop Tornadus from walking over the team.

The team struggled massively with sun before chansey, as no pokemon could take venusaur's onslaught bar Dnite, who only won on half of the occasions that the Raffesia carried HP Fire, not ice. Offensive Celebi, surprisingly, was terriflying with HP ice, and swept me before chansey came in the picture. Mienshao could 0hko it with U-turn, but couldn't switch in on any attacks.
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Re: Grey Cataclysm- An OU RMT

Post by Aaron on Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:31 pm

Interesting. I'll have to try these things out.

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Re: Grey Cataclysm- An OU RMT

Post by Frashu on Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:37 pm

^ I agree with Gastrodon being dead weight as hell.


Well I didn't realize this until I fought a Mixtar who did 37% of damage with Crunch with little investment, Gastrodon did 27% to it.


I'd seriously recommend either packing defensive or special defensive EVs, because he seems to be your only source of defense to rain.

Latios does however 2hko on your entire team, so perhaps a Blissey/Pursuit user can help against him. Tyranitar I feel will be good for canceling out weather (For sun teams you said) and can beat Latios 1 on 1 unless you switch him in on a Specs Surf.

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Re: Grey Cataclysm- An OU RMT

Post by Qualna on Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:45 pm

Flash wrote:^ I agree with Gastrodon being dead weight as hell.


Well I didn't realize this until I fought a Mixtar who did 37% of damage with Crunch with little investment, Gastrodon did 27% to it.


I'd seriously recommend either packing defensive or special defensive EVs, because he seems to be your only source of defense to rain.

Latios does however 2hko on your entire team, so perhaps a Blissey/Pursuit user can help against him. Tyranitar I feel will be good for canceling out weather (For sun teams you said) and can beat Latios 1 on 1 unless you switch him in on a Specs Surf.

What you're forgetting is that Gastrodon has Recover, giving it major staying power, you're forgetting that if a burn can be achieved on Tyranitar, the battle immediately tips in Gastrodon's favor.

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Re: Grey Cataclysm- An OU RMT

Post by Aaron on Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:46 pm

Qualna wrote:
Flash wrote:^ I agree with Gastrodon being dead weight as hell.


Well I didn't realize this until I fought a Mixtar who did 37% of damage with Crunch with little investment, Gastrodon did 27% to it.


I'd seriously recommend either packing defensive or special defensive EVs, because he seems to be your only source of defense to rain.

Latios does however 2hko on your entire team, so perhaps a Blissey/Pursuit user can help against him. Tyranitar I feel will be good for canceling out weather (For sun teams you said) and can beat Latios 1 on 1 unless you switch him in on a Specs Surf.

What you're forgetting is that Gastrodon has Recover, giving it major staying power, you're forgetting that if a burn can be achieved on Tyranitar, the battle immediately tips in Gastrodon's favor.

I was going to put on Scald.



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Re: Grey Cataclysm- An OU RMT

Post by Aaron on Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:07 pm

But you probably wouldn't switch in to an "invested" Tyranitar. Or stay in, for that matter. I would go to Gliscor, force a switch or U-Turn, then rape with Mienshao.

In addition, Lyn, Chansey and Starmie have made me into stall fodder. Celebi was able to take on some threats while providing rocks. Gastrodon could safely come in on Heatran and the like. However, by adding Chansey and Starmie in place of Celebi and Gastrodon, I have made myself vulnerable to Ferrothorn. You see, Celebi is immune to Leech Seed. Therefore, I was able to let her take a seed, get up rocks, Thunder Wave the switch (or the Ferrothorn), and decide from there. I like the suggestions, but they just aren't working out. Yesterday, I went 6-1. Now I'm 0-4.

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Re: Grey Cataclysm- An OU RMT

Post by Frashu on Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:34 pm

Qualna wrote:
Flash wrote:^ I agree with Gastrodon being dead weight as hell.


Well I didn't realize this until I fought a Mixtar who did 37% of damage with Crunch with little investment, Gastrodon did 27% to it.


I'd seriously recommend either packing defensive or special defensive EVs, because he seems to be your only source of defense to rain.

Latios does however 2hko on your entire team, so perhaps a Blissey/Pursuit user can help against him. Tyranitar I feel will be good for canceling out weather (For sun teams you said) and can beat Latios 1 on 1 unless you switch him in on a Specs Surf.

What you're forgetting is that Gastrodon has Recover, giving it major staying power, you're forgetting that if a burn can be achieved on Tyranitar, the battle immediately tips in Gastrodon's favor.

The point of my post was to reveal that Gastrodon cannot take attacks well at all except resisted ones. If a noninvested Ttar did that much what would an invested one do?


Also I pointed that out partly because Korasi doesn't have Scald. (which I highly recommend)

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Re: Grey Cataclysm- An OU RMT

Post by Lynjabear on Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:35 pm

The immunity to leech seed isn't very important because of the item change to magnezone. WIth Specs, Magnezone 0hko's Ferro 100% of the time with HP fire meaning that Magnezone can switch in, take a leech seed, and then kill ferro easily with HP fire.

Adding taunt and possibly SD to Gliscor would make him into a stallbreaker.
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Re: Grey Cataclysm- An OU RMT

Post by Aaron on Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:59 pm

Lynjabear wrote:The immunity to leech seed isn't very important because of the item change to magnezone. WIth Specs, Magnezone 0hko's Ferro 100% of the time with HP fire meaning that Magnezone can switch in, take a leech seed, and then kill ferro easily with HP fire.

Adding taunt and possibly SD to Gliscor would make him into a stallbreaker.

I'll test this.

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Re: Grey Cataclysm- An OU RMT

Post by Evan on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:00 am

Also, while being a very defensively intended team, you don't have anything to really take advantage of the fact that you're generally trying to draw out turns. You have no Poison, no phasing, so unless you're goal is to counter everything you possibly can while taking entry hazard damage constantly so you can get Dragonite out to TRY to sweep, you could be in a bit of trouble.

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Re: Grey Cataclysm- An OU RMT

Post by Aaron on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:04 am

Evan wrote:Also, while being a very defensively intended team, you don't have anything to really take advantage of the fact that you're generally trying to draw out turns. You have no Poison, no phasing, so unless you're goal is to counter everything you possibly can while taking entry hazard damage constantly so you can get Dragonite out to TRY to sweep, you could be in a bit of trouble.

I'm testing out a Sun team right now. As Sun is completely prevalent. It is the new Rain. I'll post the team here soon.

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Re: Grey Cataclysm- An OU RMT

Post by Lynjabear on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:38 am

One comment to the Dnite - I'd put Espeed over EQ, as EQ doesn't hit anything other than heatran, who can be handled by most of your other members. Also, Espeed allows you to possibly revenge kill frail threats and not be massacred by Weavile.
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Re: Grey Cataclysm- An OU RMT

Post by Aaron on Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:35 pm

I'll see.

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Re: Grey Cataclysm- An OU RMT

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